Author Topic: Introduction to the tournament  (Read 18663 times)

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Offline Emperor

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Re: Introduction to the tournament
« Reply #45 on: April 05, 2007, 10:33:21 AM »
Maybe you're getting this all wrong Albas, we don't need you to approve or anything. Nonetheless, I'll take some time to reply, if you accuse someone you better explain it as well.

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1.  People assume IOE players cheat because they get good scores (110-30) and are very difficult to kill.
2.  People run server side protection such as RRA and TRBP along with version 1.08 and it still doesn't seem to prevent them from running their "cheats".
3.  Many clans and players who do not cheat have often been accused of cheating in the past, myself and my clan included.

Point one is just silly, of course that's not the reason why we assume he's cheating.. Otherwise we'd be accusing our clanmates as well.
About point two, I'd like to believe they run well, yet I've heard too many rumours about it being hacked.
You have a point when you say lots of innocent people has been accused, and I pity that, I've been a victim myself and I know it's not anywhere near fun to be accused of something you haven't done. That's why, in general, I tend to look the other way and keep my mouth shut when I see another player moving strange. Because you can never be a 100% sure, can you?

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Perhaps the problem here is not the anti-cheat protection, but the players who are accusing IOE itself of cheating.  It seems like you have no proof that any of them are cheating other than the fact that they are difficult to kill and that they get good scores.
Our reaction is justified, it’s not based on any proves but our eyes, proves are useless anyway, they can be denied easily. There are shots though, like this one (Insert link). But it’s easy to say ‘that’s not me on it’. So you’ll have to do it with our word. Vileslayer can insert the shot if he wants to. But what does it say? Indeed, nothing at all.

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You should always be careful that you don't accuse people of cheating because their gameplay has reached a level of complexity higher than you can understand.  Just because you can't do it, it doesn't mean that others can.
I agree with you, that's why I'm willing to drop the accusations against Gore, because I've been told he's just that good. Respect then, I've got no problems facing someone better than me, not at all. Imposter just moves in degrees and that's not possible with normal settings. All you have to do is look at him, doesn't take more than that.

What really bothers me though, is that once again I'm the one who has to do all the writing. Christ, I only play a couple of hours a month, why don't you others open your mouths? If you can do it in a private conversation, you better do it in here as well, because I'm not going to put anymore effort in this. I've had it with these kind of topics. Would be neat if we could all just be friends and play a fair tournament. I'm even willing to give them the chance to play fair, don't betray our trust then.
It's out of my hands now, I'll talk to Virus and Soc* later on and we'll decide what to do.

//Emperor

Offline Vileslayer

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Re: Introduction to the tournament
« Reply #46 on: April 05, 2007, 11:08:34 AM »
I think you almost said it all, what are shots and demos good for?  ??? They can be denied anyways

Offline Avarice

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Re: Introduction to the tournament
« Reply #47 on: April 05, 2007, 01:13:54 PM »
Demorecs can be of someone faking that certain person. Shots..Also just faked...

But Albas..Have you ever played against Impostor? Because if you haven't, then I don't see how you can say that it can't be true. Like you I've also been accused of cheating, when I was in ioe and now in soc. But play against him first and see if it doesn't seem a bit strange, in the way he plays. Also another fact to why I don't really trust him that much, is that he's had several cheaters in his clan(s). But my point is, if you haven't played against him then I don't see why you'd defend him. We've both been accused of cheating but you don't see me defending him like I have in the past, even after I was KICKED out of ioe. Reason why I did, was because I was a fool just because I wanted to get back into ioe. But Lanza has been in several clans with Impostor. You don't have to believe me or any of us or our accusations if you don't want, and we do not want to force you to believe us. Draw your own conclusions, but at least think that there might be some sense to what we're saying.

Offline Vindal

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Re: Introduction to the tournament
« Reply #48 on: April 05, 2007, 01:50:15 PM »
I think I’d done the same as WTN, SoC and Rage if I were them. Unfortunately I’ve not been in this game long enough for me to judge such things as cheats, moves and so on. I don’t think there’s any point in letting cheaters play, so I’m feeling WTN and their boycott against those they don’t trust.

On the other hand, I’d like some evidence too, though I know it’s pretty difficult to get.

Called dilemma?

Offline Mata

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Re: Introduction to the tournament
« Reply #49 on: April 05, 2007, 03:01:34 PM »
It doesn't matter if they cheat or not.
IF they're experied cheater and know how to stay undetected, you can't proove it anyway.
So this discussion is...senseless ?

Offline Vileslayer

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Re: Introduction to the tournament
« Reply #50 on: April 05, 2007, 06:51:57 PM »
No its not because if you have people on suspect you shouldn't face them in a cw, should you?

Offline Vindal

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Re: Introduction to the tournament
« Reply #51 on: April 05, 2007, 08:09:24 PM »
It doesn't matter if they cheat or not.

It does matter.

So this discussion is...senseless ?

I really think it'd be a pity to see Rage, soc and WTN abandon this tournament, don't you think Mata?
« Last Edit: April 05, 2007, 08:11:40 PM by Releak »

Offline Nømad

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Re: Introduction to the tournament
« Reply #52 on: April 05, 2007, 10:25:42 PM »
'ello. Decided to drop by and read through this thread after hearing it being mentioned on the ioe forum.

As the european players most likely know, I've been in both AROC (Chaotical) as Wyvern and IOE as Blight. You most likely also know I was a cheater, and at this point I suspect people will stop reading my post. Understandable. This post has content that may be seen as inappropriate by some, and I advice sensitive readers to turn away their eyes for a few minutes and start humming "Little drummer boy".

Now, to the point.
I am one of the people who's given Imp the reputation he has now (By being in his clan not once, but twice!), together with Ani (Manticore/Flesket/Seraphim) and Lanza (Behemoth/Valthor). I find it a little unfair to start stoning my former clanmates (And Imp in particular) simply because they were dumb enough to fraternize with us. Neither Imp nor my other old clanmates had any idea of what I or Ani were doing. We cathergorically denied it all like any self-preserving shady character would do. You might think that Imp should've seen it coming with Lanza (him being a repeated offender), but Imp believes strongly in second chances. And third. And fourth. The thing is, he has this odd idea that people can change. Don't know where the hell he got that from.

Europeans might want to skip this part, just filling the americans and uninvolved players in.

Let us start with the AROC example. This was when me and Ani began our shady carreers. It started with me finding some fishy stuff in RuneEd, stuff that me and Ani took for a spin. Then it evolved into a more focused search, as we were intrigued by the "forbidden fruit". Through this, Imp was entirely unaware of what me and Ani were doing. Gradually, we started testing the ground a little and checking for partners. We had a little circle going on there, in which we shared some of the less agreeable contents of rune. I won't mention any names at the moment, since that'd only evolve into another "He said, no she said"-dicussion. I will, however, assure you folks that NONE of the current members of IOE were involved in ANY way. My word only goes so far, but that's the best I can give you.
Eventually, the bubble burst and some members of our circle decided to go public with the whole deal and expose the rest of us. Some of us went unpunished, others decided to quietly disappear. But most of us, I believe, were discouraged and cut the crap out in order to avoid catching further unwanted attention.

Now, me and ani left rune after AROC. Then, a few months later, Imp approached us via PMs on some forum (don't remember which) and asked us to return to rune, and join IOE. Both me and Ani had abandoned the shady ways of the underworld after the little scandal, and Imp was fully aware of that fact, and thought we deserved a second chance, us going quite a way back after all. Ani was a good friend of Lanza, and still is, and I just more or less agreed with most of what Ani said since I didn't really care all that much. So we fed Imp with a wagonload of "Lanza has changed, he's a good guy, just one more chance" and all that, and eventually he gave in to the pressure, and Valthor joined up. All went well for a while there, but trouble follows in Lanza's footsteps, and people were starting to see the connection between ioe and AROC. To this day, I'm not sure about wheter or not Lanza actually *did* cheat at that time, but we were all pals, so I decided not to press the matter any further. After some fight or something, Lanza decided to leave rune, and Ani kind of went with him. We continued to support Lanza due to the fact that we had not seen any real evidence of his continued cheating, apart from the usual accusations in-game. Then Lanza decided to start faking our members and crashing our server for some reason, and that stopped too.

End of history lesson.

Conclusion; AROC = Yes, lots of cheaters in there.
IOE = Former cheaters, a few. Current cheaters, none.

As for Imp's style in-game, yes, it does look fishy to someone who's not familiar with how he's gotten it. I've spent countless hours exercising in-game with him in different ways, and he never quits training until he's mastered whatever he's currently looking to master.
If I had demoreced any of it, I could show you, but I doubt it'd do much good anyway. Imp's a nerd, oh yes. A big one. But he is *NOT* a cheater.

Only I may claim that title.

Now thank you for listening, good sirs, and fare thee well once more.
(Also, the sensitive readers may start looking again now)

Edit: Gah, got so worked up about righting the wrongs that I forgot the on-topic part.
If rage or WTN decide not to participate, it's their loss. Not your problem. They deserve no special treatment for being difficult to deal with. If anything, they should be whipped for misdemeanour.

Offline Gorm

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Re: Introduction to the tournament
« Reply #53 on: April 05, 2007, 11:13:54 PM »
either way we cant say, they arnt allowed. fact is no one here actually has proof that ioe has cheats.
meaning we cant just ban them for surspecsions, if that was the case, I would just have to say i dont want WTN to play because i dont like there leader.

fact is that lets stop this kindergarden attitude? gets os nowhere. get a grip or get lost?
fase the truth beat them instead of whining. and no im still a strong beliver that something is wrong. but I cant prove it. so ive stopped trying to cut them out. and instead holster my weapon so I can train my abillites instead. you all should do the same instead of whining about who cheats and who doesnt.

Offline Vileslayer

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Re: Introduction to the tournament
« Reply #54 on: April 05, 2007, 11:22:07 PM »
[...]
http://z11.invisionfree.com/Incarnations_of_Evil/index.php?showtopic=42
This topic is becoming exactly the same as the topic at the ioe forums...
Maybe we should stay ON topic now :)
« Last Edit: April 05, 2007, 11:44:50 PM by Vileslayer »

Offline Impostor

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Re: Introduction to the tournament
« Reply #55 on: April 06, 2007, 11:41:39 PM »
Yep, we should get back to the topic title which was an introduction to this tournament.

If WTN wishes not to participate it's their problem.

We're 8 teams now nevertheless. I like your words on ioe forum, Emperor by the way.

Offline Vileslayer

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Re: Introduction to the tournament
« Reply #56 on: April 07, 2007, 05:12:34 PM »
By the way, what happens if you lose your homemap to a clan that has already got 2 homemaps?

Offline Søren Bjerg

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Re: Introduction to the tournament
« Reply #57 on: April 07, 2007, 05:33:25 PM »
By the way, what happens if you lose your homemap to a clan that has already got 2 homemaps?

[...] A horde is only allowed ownership of a maximum of two maps at any given time, so if a horde gains ownership of a third map, it has to be decided which of the maps to discard (and effectively make unavailable for the remainder of the tournament). [...]
The RUNE of today... is like attending the Special Olympics of trampoline jumping.

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